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The Jewish Question

Gaza 2014

It has been suggested that I took the below material down of the net as it was anti Israel and I did so out of politeness. However with the recent barbarism exercised against Gaza and in consideration of the fact that I lost a paternal aunt and two uncles to the holocaust Dora, Paul and Ernest 3 of the 6 children of that family, I have reposted it. I feel totally free to say Nazi bigots or Zionist bigots they are all the same because the ruin decent peoples lives. Is it not about time we all joined together to stop this bigotry and murder.

Let me make it clear that I do not blame ordinary Israelis for the action against Gaza unless of course they support it. And let me make it clear that there may even be Zionists that I am not anti, but from what I understand of Zionism I think I oppose its basic doctrine.

I am a great believer in diplomacy and the power of the spoken word. I do not mean politeness or avoidance of controversy. I mean diving feet first into controversy and trying to understand one another etc.

Now here is my story below.

Berlin 2006

In 2006 I visited Berlin for to take a wreath for Remembrance Sunday. During my time there I travelled around a bit mostly on foot. Approaching the street market I expected nothing special. Yes there is the usual historic stuff like any market but here it was old nazi youth publications and a suitcase of letters signed Hail Hitler, I wonder if it was one of the legendary suitcases of the gassed. But what struck me the most was that out of perhaps sixty stalls three sold nothing but silver cutlery from before WWII.

Of course it would be easy to assume that this was acquired from exterminated jews but there was also door handles for sale. I wonder if it was bomb salvage?

German Opposition

I met an old British man, dead now, who told me he had had a friend, a young woman who was a university student in Germany. With two other students they wrote anti Nazi leaflets. The SS arrived with a van, assembled the students in the quad, took out a block and an axe and beheaded the three. Why did the people of Germany not resist? That's partly why (See Executions)  but also many did. And all praise to them because it is far easier to oppose another nation than it is to oppose your own homeland.

My Jewish Family

These are the children of Bernat Hirsch and Emma Wieländer some of whom where killed by the Nazis. Notice that Betty, the author, uses the phrase "died in deportation".

This was originally typed by the late Betty Elton on a typewriter. I (Thomas de Havas son of Frederic de Havas son of Emil son of Bernat Hirsch) have retyped it on a computer on 12/6/2008 and where I have added words they are in square brackets. I have tried to use the original spelling. it does not entirely agree with Nicholas Elton's family tree diagram!

I do not know when he died. He has been consul of Paraguay, and his son could use this very well, he emigrated to Paraguay, after the Anschluss he brought out his mother, sister to the Argentine, I remember they all came via Budapest. His only daughter lives in Paris. His wife Lisa, has been a good friend to us.
The daughter, Monica, - ??? de Trecomain. [Hand written on original]

Changed his name when he got the nobility to of Kisunyom to Havas, I do not know why he moved from Vienna to Sopron, in Hungary, and there he never disclosed that he has been Jewish, and as nobody denounced him they survived. After the war he wrote to his brother Otto "unser Hochmut wurde unser Gluck".

Lived in Szombathely in Hungary, had one illegitimate son, whom he brought up. The son has been in the foreign legion, where he lost one leg. Ernest died in deportation.

Lived in Vienna in a house owned by the family, married Jeanne from Romania, as children we have visited them in a villa in Baden by Vienna, which belonged to the family. Both of them died in deportation. They had two sons Georg and Hans, who emigrated to Canada, then Georg changed his mind, and came to Australia, where he died.

Has not been married and lived in Rio de Janeiro.

Married Josef Lazar de Szegvar, landowner in Hungary, they had two daughters Franciska, (Zeze) and Ilona. Franziska married Georg Engal de Cserkut, they had three children, Betty, Peter and Claire. Ilona who was 16 years younger than her sister, alos [She may mean Ilona] had two children who still live in Hungary. Dora died in deportation.
[Dora was deported to Auschwitz according to Tomas Kolcsei, and was taken directly to the gas chambers.]

married Edmund Palotay de Varpalota, they both died in the twenties. they had two children, Edmund, called Dici, he had one son, who came to London in 1956 but since then disappeared. The daughter, Gertrud, never married, died I think in the sixties.


From the statement of Hans Stark, registrar of new arrivals, Auschwitz (Klee, 255):

"At another, later gassing -- also in autumn 1941 -- Grabner* ordered me to pour Zyklon B into the opening because only one medical orderly had shown up. During a gassing Zyklon B had to be poured through both openings of the gas-chamber room at the same time. This gassing was also a transport of 200-250 Jews, once again men, women and children. As the Zyklon B -- as already mentioned -- was in granular form, it trickled down over the people as it was being poured in."

"They then started to cry out terribly for they now knew what was happening to them. I did not look through the opening because it had to be closed as soon as the Zyklon B had been poured in. After a few minutes there was silence. After some time had passed, it may have been ten to fifteen minutes, the gas chamber was opened. The dead lay higgledy-piggedly all over the place. It was a dreadful sight."


We hear almost every day about the 6 million Jews of the Holocaust but not the between 11 million and 17 million people including ethnic Poles, Romani, Soviet civilians, Soviet prisoners of war, people with disabilities, homosexuals, Jehovah's Witnesses, and other political and religious opponents exterminated by the Nazi regime in exactly the way described above. Why? Surly the definition of the Holocaust must include all those exterminated, they were all humans.

Palestine / Israel

I have very little understanding of the Israel Palestine issue and have spent very little time on it. I hope that those who feel they could enhance my understanding will let me know about interesting links in relation to it. Here are some of those links.

Miko Peled was born in Jersusalem into a famous and influential Israeli Zionist family. His father was a famous General in the Israeli Army,

YouTube Video

Further Links:
Wikipedia: The Jewish Question
Wikipedia - Israel
Gandhi on Jews & Middle-East
Wikipedia - Reparations Agreement between Israel and West Germany
Wikipedia - Hezbollah

Amira Hass at Haaretz
The Jerusalem Post